QUAZI JOHIRUL ISLAM

Discussion on Kamsutra by Quazi Johirul Islam

Poems can be found here:

http://ccc.domaindlx.com/bbnew/Kamsutra-Full.pdf

Really nice poetry. I always love poems, which is full of allegory and images. I am reading a Bengali poem after a long time.Mr.Johir, are you a professional writer or you just write for fun?Arnab
28 June 2005
Hi Johir,
I didn’t find any nice poetry in the same but found some perverts idea about animal sex..group sex and all those bullshit crap.
Frankly I am disturbed with the characters of Ramayana being also taken in account (anyway which cant be nice)..This is sheer insult to Hinduism. Can you write something like it for your Prophet? I doubt so.... You have the insult to discourage the God of other religion but don’t apply it for your own.
Arnab, Pathetic you are moderator and encourage such things.
This group is gradually turning into all wrong discussion forum............
Number of people joining the group is not a measure of success of group but quality they are adding to society and group should be important. If this type of messages starts unfaltering I doubt one day quality will fail in front of the wrong quantity.
I hope good for this group of mine..ours.
Gautam
28 June 2005
Gautam,
I would have gone for argument if someone else wrote these poems. Anyway, what I understand from your comment, you don't have in-depth knowledge about poetry.... but never mind comment of an ordinary reader also very important. I will consider your comments.
Thanks,
Johir
28 June 2005
Dear Arnab,
I don't know whether I am a professional writer or not and I even don't know what is the definition of professionalism...but I have been writing over the last 20 years and I have several publications...if you visit viswayan.com, will find my regular travel story. And if you search by my name "Quazi Islam" in any search engine will find some of my English version (translated)...if you keep your eyes on Bangladeshi newspapers on Friday (Shamoyeeki pages) will find frequently my writings.
Thanks for your encouraging words...
Regards,
Johir
28 June 2005
Johirul,
I would love to see how you react if someone exterminates 2 billion Bangladeshis in gas chambers and then you find that the killer's name is a popular brand among the youth of your country. Freedom is fine as long as it is enjoyed within the realms of conscience.
who am I to say all these things to you, after all. go ahead, name your son or nephew after Adolf Hitler, I hope you have the courage of the mind to do this, and then let him face the world. I can tell you that anybody who wishes to formally name himself Adolf Hitler will be ostracized by society, no matter which country he belongs to.
Just try this out and let me know ASAP. Of course, you'll have to live to let me know.
By the same token, I might just want to change my name to "Bastard", Arnab might want to shift to "lecherous", and Haji may choose "bloody idiot" for himself. What's in a name, after all!
Isn't it?
I also agree with Arnab that we need imperfections around us to figure out where we stand.
Barid
28 June 2005

Dear Mr. Gautam Das,
I don't know how old are you (just to imagine your experience about life) but I guess you are very young. Your doubt about the qualification of moderator is bit impolite (isn't it?). One more thing I would like to say, your concern about the "quality of group" is not under any threat, I can assure you. Killing the basic human rights (freedom of speech/press), no one can maintain quality of civilization. I hope I didn't hurt you.
Very best regards,
Johir
28 June 2005
Johirul,
I have been writing for more than 25 years, ever since I became a journalist. Some of my poems have been published in the US (yes, I have chosen to write in English), and in India as well. But your kobitaguchcho clearly veers off the erotic and plunges into an abyss. By the way, do you consider yourself deprived or depraved? Please choose carefully, for one is linked to the other, at least in your case. I like erotica but not in the virulent form as presented by you.
One more thing ... Are you married? If you are not, do you get a decent F#%K these days? Neither seems to be a possibility. Correct me if I am wrong, please.
Allow me this bow,
Barid
29 June 2005
Dear Barid,
I read your mails and surprised to know that you are a writer have been writing for long 25 years, I can imagine that you are a very good writer, I admire your politeness that shows how good writer you are.
Probably I couldn't make you understand that I am not fond of a person like Hitler or whomever you may in love with. But do you or me have the right to impose or direct someone DO THIS or DON'T DO THIS, in what authority...at best you can dominate your family members, that also we should not do. Again I am telling you I am not in favor of any ADLOF HITLER, I have been working for peace, global peace for many years. I am extremely against any kind of terrorism, war; even throwing a simple attacking word to anyone.
God bless you.
Johir
29 June 2005
Johir
You can have freedom of speech so u call..... But simply that doesn’t mean you hurt someone s religious idol. If you can play with Ram Sita Raven Laxman... that show the pathetic nature of your mind. If you cant show respect at least don’t show any disrespect.
I challenge you write the same so called kobita for your prophet or including any religious character...even then I will hate you more.
I doubt how does u get ur surname Quazi.... I understand Quazi are supposed to be religious and spread the words of God.
No Regards for You..
Gautam
29 June 2005
Dear Gautam,
Onek abuj pathaker shathei lekhakder deal korte hoi, Barid nishchai bhalo kore janen ta, tini ekjan senior writer. Ami apnake onurodh korbo kabitagulo aro ekbar bhalo kore porben. Amar mone hochchhe apni series-tir mul shurta dhorte parenni. Kao-ke aghat dewa amar oddesya noi. Je kathaguloke apni apattikar balchhen, shegulo ek Naroder katha, kabir noi. I hope you are familiar with SATIRE in poetry, if so, it won't be a problem for you to understand.
But sincerely speaking Gautam, I have learnt many things from your mail. If people (highly educated people like you) do not understand, then why should we write all these garbage..(Barid, what is your feeling as a writer/poet). This is a question to me (or poets community) whether we should go back to Jasim Uddin-style...simple and easy communicating...
And one more thing, Mohabharat, Ramayana are most resourceful source for literature, these are not only religious property, literature value of them is very high. Probably you can't imagine how much concentration I gave while I read Geeta and Ramayan, even with that much concentration I didn't read Quran...I don't have disrespect for any religion neither any human being.
I would like to express my heartfelt regards to you. I don't see anything wrong with you as you didn't say regards "to me". It came from anger and your all anger came from love, because you love something so much...eventually that love will spread out to all human being, that is my pray to Iswar/Bhagban/God/Allah (whatever you say)..
God bless you.
Johir
29 June 2005
hats off to Johir
You are a gentleman
regards
biswajit
29 June 2005
Friends,
I have nothing against anybody's literary genius, or whatever we may choose to describe it as. There is no doubt that Johir's command over the language of Bengali is enviable. But he has used it in a very profane manner. The difference between between profanity and decency has long been settled when Budhdhadeb babu was hauled to a court of law for his book "Rat Bhor Brishti". Ratbhor Brishti gave explicit details of a man's libidinal aspirations and the so-called progressive Bengali society deemed it profane. Stalwarts like Sunil Ganguly, Ram Kinkor Baige and Mani Shankar (popularly Shankar) and other contemporary writers stood in the witness box at the Calcutta High Court and fell in line with Budhdhadeb babu. In a landmark judgement, the court turned middle-class Bengali sentiment on its head and ruled that the book was not profane. By any chance, have you read that book? You must because it rocked the 70's Bengali society the same way Guy Talese's Thy Neighbour's Wife rocked the western psyche decades ago. Once again, I did not want to be mean to this Johirul, but he should have drawn a line somewhere to have his kobitaguchcho perceived as literature. For that matter, Taslima Nasreen's poem "When a dog chases you, it's rabies. When a man chases you, it's syphillis" just cannot sup at the high table of literature. It is not literature. One has all the liberty to usher in a new genre and be an avant garde, but literature is strictly literature, and shall not be diluted by profanity. This is where I object. But still, his command over the language remains commendable.
I am a writer myself and I have been critiqued time and again by my readers. Neither am I a puritan. If we are true to our call, then we should practice what we preach. I have been married for more than once, had many girlfriends in the past, and have recited Anondo Bhairabi while lying in the cradled arms of a tawaaif in Varanasi. I have held the hand of a gazelle-eyed tribal girl in the deep jungles of Santhal Pargana and sang: " O Monu re, ami jodi daktar hoitam, ponchish taka visit loitam." So, I do not want to be told what is profane and what is decent. I have seen both sides of the fence.
Even Arnab behaved liked a reactionary. Maybe, he's not too concerned about literature.
But Johirul, let me help you. If you want these poems published in pirnt, I can help you. But I wonder, how many publishers would agree to print these?
Barid
29 June 2005
Johirul,
I am talking about these poems in a book form, maybe in West Bengal, or Dhaka. Are you game? I am not talking about Internet. Internet is only good for culling and accessing vital information. You will have to get out of your soft South African refuge to have this poems published. Once again, are you game? Maybe, you have to address a press conference. Are you game? Please leave the Internet mode and get closer to terra firma. That's where the real test lies.
Just the other day, I was reading two poems. One in Bengali and one is English. The Bengali one is "Bodh" by Jibonanondo Das and the other one is "An Ode on Grecian Urn". I have both the books. Neither you, nor I or for that matter anybody else can ever hope to be within a 1000 miles of these poets and their works. Posterity, my dear friend, is the other name for literature.
There is no doubt about the fact that you write well. My plea to you is, please use your extra-ordinary writing skills to create literature.
Barid
29 June 2005

Hi Johir,
bhalo bhelki dite paro.
Gautam
29 June 2005
Johirul,
What style you want to adopt depends not on the readership of your poetry. Some poets have niche and regional readership. For example, Emerson's works appealed more to the French than to Americans. In this context, I am reminded of a famous incident. Once Sharatchandra Chattopadhyay was asked how he rated himself to Rabindranath Tagore. He said, "Tagore writes for people like us. But someone has to write for the masses. I try to do that." Very profound, but I personally do not agree with this statement. Anyway, that's besides the point.
What shape our poetry or prose takes depends on how we see the world. Each one of us has a different perspective - what is music to your ears could be cacophony for me. But both of us would want to write - you on music, I on cacophony. Whether you want to use blank verse or the Italian sonnet style, or the Horatian ode, depends on your felicity with any one of these styles. These are just examples. What you are best at is your style. At the same time, I don't think a poet should allow himself to be bound by any particular literary regimen. For example, William Wordsworth could never repeat in his later works the extra-ordinary stress and emphasis that he had used in "Daffodils". But that did not make his other works insipid.
It is our inner eye that makes us see what others don't, or cannot. So, this gift combined with writing skills should be used in a manner so that our works reach out to people. Your "Bush-Tony homokam" went down very well with some of my old schoolmates, but I did not like it myself. I felt the political message could have been given out in a different way, without being wrapped in "kam". But that should not make any difference to you or to your readers.
One last friendly advice, and I will use my native tongue to say this: Doya korey tomar bangla bhashar dokhkhota ke jonikeet kore rekho na. We should be versatile.
Barid,
29 June 2005
Barid,
There are many things to learn from you. Apnar porashona besh...Sharat babur shei bahul procholoto galpati mone korie debar janya dhanyabad. Tomar upodesh bhalo laglo, ami obasya-i cheshta korbo...I think this is the first time I have written Satire like this. But politics always comes in my writings...I don't know why.
I think we are moving towards more personal issue, let us communicate one to one...why other people should bother all these things.
Regards,
Johir
29 June 2005
Gautam Das, Arnab & Johir
What is this? Mr. Gautam Das said that those poems are sheer insult to Hinduism, which is not acceptable. Arnab you should give some clarification, although I noticed the attachment that it was "Kamashutra". I don't know much about Kamashutra, but I know that it is kinda sex related literature, can you guys, please clarify the matter more clearly.

Desert Fox
30 June 2005

Dear All,

First of all, Desert Fox and others, download Mr. Johir's poem from the following site
http://ccc.domaindlx.com/bbnew/Kamsutra-Full.pdfBefore, I start, I think that poetry can be interpreted in so many different ways. The more ways you can interpret a poem, more powerful it is. Therefore, the interpretation of Barid, Gautam and mine (that I will mention in this message) are correct in our own ways. Now, about the kamsutra poem of Mr. Johir, well, this poem reminded me of "Animal Farm." by George Orwell. By the way, here is something about Mr. Orwell, is that he was actually born in Bengal. Therefore, he is a born Bengali. Anyways, in his book, Mr. Orwell used the animals and conflicts between farms to represent Communism andincidents surrounding it. It is an amazing book and I recommend it to everyone. This book shows the world the real picture of Soviet Communism and Indian (CPI) communism. It also shows the difference between the dream of Karl Marx and the reality of communism that is imposed in various countries. I believe it is a strong book. Anyways, in a similar manner as Mr. Orwell, Mr. Johir used different charactersof Indian mythology and animals to represent an important conflict of today's world--the western imperialism. I did not agree with everything that came out of Mr. Johir's poetry but I certainly loved the way he portrayed his views. From my interpretation, I find Mr.Johir puts Bush into the sit of Ravan. He portrays, as Ravan was after Sita, Bush is after oil. The cows most probably represent the five permanent members of UN's security council, who has the ability to veto. He continues his views with these characters just like Mr. Orwell did with pigs as the communist leaders and the other animals as normal citizens. Anyways, Mr. Johir's connection between desire for sex of Ravan and desire for wealth for Bush actually bring out an important concept of Gita. In Gita, Krishna brings the desire for sex and materials under one umbrella. Another idea (this I believe Mr. Johir didn't intend to put in his poem) that comes out of Mr. Johir's poem is our perception of women as males. We always treat women as a wealth. Therefore, it is so easy tocompare desire for women with the desire for money or material. I believe this is really sad. This perception of women has led the women of the world to suffer through so much discrimination and hatred. The religious fundamentalists try to spread religions in a way, which ONLY revolve around women. This is totally sad.
Finally, I think Barid has a competitor in Bangali-Bondhu. (LOL) It used to be ONLY Barid, who was the master of language in this group. However, now we have a worthy competitor of Barid, Mr. Johir. I like the way both of these people take advantage of their beautiful ability to play with languages. Personally, I am not that good in language. Iremember, in Bangladesh, in Bengali 1st paper, I used to get low 70s and even sometimes-high 60s. In Bengali 2nd paper or the grammar one, I was maintaining high 80s to 90s because it was just pure memorizing.
Gautam and Biswajit welcome to the discussion. Keep up discussing!
Regards,Arnab
30 June 2005
P.S. Mr. Johir and everyone please CC your emails to
"arnabmarvelous@yahoo.ca" that contain attachments because Yahoo!
groups don't keep the attachments.

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